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Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: Raid XP Pool
This proposes a pretty big revamp of the raiding system as it pertains to XP. The numbers in parenthesis are a rough approximation for what I feel would be reasonable. The focus of this suggestion is rewarding tasks like bashing and tanking pets, as well as incentivizing raiding as a whole. This also leads into further suggestions regarding other platforms for factional warfare.
A raid's duration should begin on first ward tap and end on either full ward regen or standard capture.
Each character has an XP pool which is added to by performing the following actions:
For the attackers:
Bashing the ward (1xp per 40 damage), only added AFTER ward broken
Bashing the forts (1x per 40 damage)
Pets killed with aura (1xp per 5 pets)
Recapping a standard (5xp)
Taking enemy standard (10xp)
Dying to member of enemy faction (10xp this is like the consolation prize for making it at all)
Surviving until enemy standard is taken (15xp)
Potentially xp for certain support activities with values to be determined.
The following factors affect the XP pool for all participating characters. Multiplier adds rather than compounds:
Ward was broken: +.5x
At least one flag recapped: +.5x
Enemy standard taken: +x
Once the raid is complete, either ward fully regenned or standard taken, each characters pool would be finalized and awarded.
Defending is already a potential XP bonanza, but this logic could be applied to fort repair if I wasn't against that as an aspect of defense. Stonewalling could also be incentivised although again I don't think that would be a good idea.
Some examples:
On solo recap: having dealt 1000 ward damage, walked in, recapped and died, the character would expect to earn
1000/40 = 25 for bashing
+ 10 for dying
+5 for recapping
* 2 for breaking the ward and recapping (.5 each)
=80 total xp
Or the tank in a successful raid team, against a 50 strong petwall having done 1/3 of the ward and fort damage:
+12.5 for bashing (500 damage/40)
+15 for surviving
+10 for killing 50 pets
+10 for being the character to capture
*2.5 for breaking ward + capping
=118.75 total
Any thoughts? I know this is virtually unimplementable right now, but I think something like this would be good.
I think a lot of these don't make sense. XP for dying stands out, for example. You shouldn't incentivize failure, it risks creating edge cases where deliberately failing is in a player's best interest and that's bad for everyone working with them.
As such, I'd suggest simplifying this scheme down a lot:
- Give half XP for aura damage/kills and have it count towards achievement stats. This is basically quality-of-life stuff for tanks and should be a thing without even considering the effect on raids.
- Leave wards and forts alone. Building forts and maximizing the size of your ward shouldn't be a balancing consideration, where you give your opponent a reward for overcoming more of it, it's a barrier, it's supposed to be a total negative for the attacker. The non-rewarding nature of it also makes the question of "who bashes?" more interesting, especially because attacks on wards are invisible; there are opportunities for free riding and for altruistic behavior. You also don't need to incentivize bashing because the reward for bashing is already "you get to kill everyone inside!"
- Create a substantial reward (way more than 10 XP; your suggestions are all super-lowball) for taking or recapturing flags, but penalize it for t2s and make it almost nothing for tier 3s. Making mortals more effective ward bashers was a step in the right direction, but flawed; it gave an incentive for factions to bring newbies in, but didn't give newbies any incentive to come on raids. Attaching a reward to flag-grabbing helps redeem the idea of mortals-as-bashers because it only costs 1 AP, so it doesn't conflict with AP-intensive bashing as much as "well I guess you can try to kill people with huge armor and dodge values with your puny 45% attack rate."
Joined: Jul 05, 2011 Posts: 609 Location: Behind you
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject:
This goes against the principal of increasing xp required for successive levels. In this system as you reach a higher level and get an aura, more bash, etc, it flattens the time taken pee level line, which is not the way it should work. _________________ DS Vengence (10321)|Exar Kun (9839)|Odysseus (6385)|Sac II (3599)|Secundus Nulli (3900)|Spécïâl Chàrăcŧẽr (6153)|Darth Bane (5067)|The occasional shadow (4078)|Ventis Secundus (3858)
Joined: Nov 28, 2009 Posts: 123 Location: Netherlands
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject:
Needs work I think.
But the basic idea that 'selfless acts' could yield XP is not bad really.
Even if I'd only grant these xp if and only if the flag is capped.
No xp for failure imo. _________________ - Elkerlyc has become a Wizard ! (2014-10-09 21:33:03)
- Elkerlyc has become a Wizard ! (2015-12-03 07:19:58).
This goes against the principal of increasing xp required for successive levels. In this system as you reach a higher level and get an aura, more bash, etc, it flattens the time taken pee level line, which is not the way it should work.
Your XP is still going to increase as you level since you'll be more effective at killing others/healing/anything else.
Joined: Jul 05, 2011 Posts: 609 Location: Behind you
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:44 pm Post subject:
GreatCatatonic wrote:
Sac wrote:
This goes against the principal of increasing xp required for successive levels. In this system as you reach a higher level and get an aura, more bash, etc, it flattens the time taken pee level line, which is not the way it should work.
Your XP is still going to increase as you level since you'll be more effective at killing others/healing/anything else.
--Great
You miss my point. Maybe not explained properly since I'm on the phone.
As you go up in level, each successive level is supposed to be harder/longer to get. As it is in every game ever made. This suggestion flattens that curve a bit by the fact that as you go higher in level and get more skills, you're now compensated even more. In fact it specifically increases xp for the higher levels who do the damage and leaves the mortals in the same situation they were in before with a trickle of xp because they're doing bugger all damage.
As I've said before I just don't think we need to keep looking at ways to milk XP out of everything. Enjoy the ride instead. _________________ DS Vengence (10321)|Exar Kun (9839)|Odysseus (6385)|Sac II (3599)|Secundus Nulli (3900)|Spécïâl Chàrăcŧẽr (6153)|Darth Bane (5067)|The occasional shadow (4078)|Ventis Secundus (3858)
In fact it specifically increases xp for the higher levels who do the damage and leaves the mortals in the same situation they were in before with a trickle of xp because they're doing bugger all damage.
Totally Agree with this.
Also:
What do support types get in this scenario? The buffing Advocate who only brings blessings and anointing in raids, The Aura enchanting DOs, The Wormhole Conduits. You can say that they chose that path, the path of self-sacrifice and that they are gimped in all games made anyway but we're not most games and we can try to show love to our support types.
I'm more interested to see a Goal-oriented rewards that benefits the Whole Raid Team as a whole if they did their roles right.
What about making it an actual XP pool? Everybody who is both in the faction or allied with the faction which captures the standard and contributed to the pool gets the full XP granted by the collective contributions on capture. _________________ My Characters
What do support types get in this scenario? The buffing Advocate who only brings blessings and anointing in raids, The Aura enchanting DOs, The Wormhole Conduits. You can say that they chose that path, the path of self-sacrifice and that they are gimped in all games made anyway but we're not most games and we can try to show love to our support types.
I'm more interested to see a Goal-oriented rewards that benefits the Whole Raid Team as a whole if they did their roles right.
A nominal xp gain (+50/100xp?) for being (having been) in the enemy SH following flag capture would be a nice boon and would promote participation from all levels.
--
Raiding as a whole needs to provide additional benefits beyond renown, as is, and xp as a mid to end game activity. As it stands I got 6 maxxed chars that raid regularly and I cannot tell you why I do it. XP, no. Stats, no. Renown, no - we bought everything in B3. Glory, sorta - taking down the big bad is cool. Social connectivity to faction, a wee bit. Fundamentally its something to do I guess; but that's disconcerting.
I really wouldnt mind seeing raiding pull in Faction based boons. That would get me really excited, such as:
a) Raiding an x aligned by x level faction grants you "tribute package" of x aligned alchemy ingredients which scale based on faction level.
b) Raiding x aligned faction gives you +1dmg/+5%att against that alignment or +5%search/-1ap per repair for x faction level days/hours etc.
Some suggestions but ultimately boons that will reward the faction on many levels other than the DPS Rev nailing 500xp on the raid whilst everyone else can have fun respawning _________________ Aiobhill (Wiz) | Athru (LS) | Eleanor (Advo) | Erehlim (Archon) | Fedayeen (IB) | Lamia (Corruptor) | Morrighan (Rev) | Thane (Seraph)
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